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The Effects Of Male Chauvinism On Children & Society

Discussion in 'Discuss Sexual Abuse' started by muzikluvr, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. I was looking for a thread about male chauvinism because that's a huge trigger for me. I hear people saying sexist remarks and it registers with my brain that they think rape is sometimes deserved. Anyway. I appreciate this quote by Klmisc from http://www.mysexabuse.com/threads/perpetuating.684/

    Maybe I normalized the abusers. No. In my childhood, my abusers were normalized to me. I was told repeatedly, that I was overreacting when they made fun of me in front of my family. They made sexual innuendos and comments on my body, on my facial expressions, everything... Bully made sex out of everything. And, my family told me I was overreacting when it upset me. It frightened me, and it angered me. I always tried to find a way to distinguish Bully from others, but was always told that he is just a boy. His mother even said "Boys will be boys".

    How can I sort this out? Where is the line, and why is it so hard to define?

    I also am very sexist, in that I devalue myself as a woman all the time. I'm trying to sort out... my value. I think this is a huge issue in my life. I have a teenage boy and a preteen daughter and I don't want to perpetuate this sexist belief system... this abuse cycle.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on this kind of thing?

    Where do you draw the line with this stuff in your own home? How do you raise a boy to respect women? How do you convince your husband that telling his son not to say something because it will upset mom, instead of giving him a good reason why he shouldn't say something, is teaching him that mom is irrational about it and otherwise it's okay to say?

    Am I making any sense? And, is anyone interested in having a conversation about this issue?
    Anna likes this.
  2. Brucielucy

    Brucielucy I am Worth Something!! Staff Member

    Hi Musikluvr,

    I think you are making a very valid point. I was raised in a family where sexual innuendo was the norm and I hated it even then. Everybody else laughed while I cringed. I have never seen my mother anywhere near naked, but my father paraded his naked body all the time. He even did it when my school friends visited and I was so embarrassed, but it was shrugged off as that was just the way he was.

    As I started to develop into a woman he encouraged my 2 brothers to tease me and make fun of my body.

    There IS a fine line and I don't know where it is. As I am not a mother myself I have not had the difficulty of teaching boys to respect women, and am only very glad that my 3 stepsons (adults now) all treat me with the greatest of respect. I guess their mother is not so bad after all? Rory had little to do with their growing up so there was not that battle of two opinions.

    Sexism is so prevalent in our society. But it does work both ways. I guess one needs to learn to respect oneself before you can teach that trait to offspring .

    Do you devalue just yourself or all women?

    Lucy x
    muzikluvr likes this.
  3. I have this too, even now my family make jokes about sexual things that happened. Some of it I think is, it's the abusers way to justify the actions to themselves. I also think it keeps the shame gong to an extent so you somehow always remain the victim.
    muzikluvr likes this.
  4. All women. :goingtocry:

    Women are powerless in our society. All women who are successful and appear powerful, are walking on a ledge... they cannot be emotional, they cannot speak out against sexism or whatever, they have to have a thick skin and sometimes be more sexist than the men they work with in order to maintain their show of strength.

    All power that women have is given to them by men. They can't take it for themselves. They can wile it away. They can ban together to deceive it away. It's like I live in the Dolly Parton movie "Working 9 to 5"

    I don't like women. If they're successful, they're judgmental. I haven't done anything except survive... and that's not good enough. If they're not successful, then I am judgmental. Basically, their opinion doesn't count. It's only being given to appear sympathetic, to manipulate me in some way, to find out my secrets so they can make fun of me or use them to control me.

    My daughter's friend tried to do that to some other girl in class. My daughter was upset about it, and finally told the other girl, in front of her friend, that her friend is trying to get her secrets so she can embarrass her. Why do girls do that? They are in 5th grade.

    My friend used to call me on the phone, and ask me all kinds of questions about this other friend of hers. I didn't know the other girl very well. So, I just listened to what my friend said about her, and then my friend would ask me to judge her for what she told me... and I would end up trying to figure out what my friend wanted to hear... and then saying that the nicest way possible. Then the other girl would speak up, having heard the whole conversation, and she would be angry with ME. I would sputter... wtf? I don't even care! Why are you both calling me and telling me this crap and asking me to judge it? only... in 6th grade speak... whatever that was then.

    My mom didn't protect me. A woman in our church invited me to her house, figured out that I was definitely being abused, and rejected me... all after gaining my trust. Another woman, neighbor's nurse/cook or something, she invited me in the house and gave me some kind of dessert while gaining my trust so she could figure out if I what kind of abuse was going on. She did nothing for me. My grandma gossiped about me.

    The only "real" female friend I have treats me like I'm a child. She works. She doesn't understand why I haven't gotten over all this stuff. She believes my family loves me and they didn't mean for anything bad to happen to me. That's true..... but they made choices. Major ones, that detrimentally affected my life... then and now.

    :help: Most of those negative descriptions I gave about women were used against me for getting myself raped when I was a child. So, it's universal really. All the negative stuff that is said and believed about women can be said in a completely innocuous situation, and also hold true in a rape situation. Just as all the men who are male chauvinists can make their comments about a female colleague or about a hooker, interchangeably. It's funny when they say it about their colleague, and true when they say it about the hooker.... but, what makes it funny when they say it about the colleague? Why am I supposed to laugh? Why do I? Why do I laugh at absurdly sexist things being said about a respectable woman? Because it's absurd. I guess.
  5. Do you think the abusers lies confused all the other men...? And, do you think that the non-rapists excuse the rapists because they have urges too? Why are men so confused about respecting women? What's so hard to figure out about caring which girl you go to bed with?

    "If you can't be, with the one you love.... love the one you're with"

    I don't want to be insulting, I really don't... not to women and not to men, but this topic is like discussing racism. The person who speaks is the one who's going to be hated, or devalued. The one who brings it up is the hysterical female who must have daddy issues and can't stand to have sex. She should be made fun of, and her judgment should be questioned.

    My male dog humps my female dog, and the female dog barks at him and growls at him. She doesn't want it. He doesn't care. I won't describe it because it triggers me terribly to watch them. I love my giant, male German Shepherd... he's a big sweetheart. He buries his head under my arm like he's hiding... while his giant body remains exposed. He's hilarious, and when I cried out loud, he came over and comforted me. Just... felt compelled to make some good statements about him since I basically see him trying to rape my older dog on a regular basis.

    Seeing that, always brings to mind this core belief that men can't help themselves. That's what it triggers in me. Boys will be boys. That's just the way life is. Oh, get over it and accept your role in society. God made us that way so that we would populate the earth.

    I certainly have been in a social situation and become embarrassed by stuff that's been said "in jest" by some male chauvinist pig. Everyone laughs. I usually get an elbow... hinting that I need to laugh to or else everyone will know that there's something wrong with me for taking it too seriously. I have to wonder if those men ever listen for the answer "yes".

    I have also been hit on by a married man, while my husband and I were out to dinner with a bunch of "friends". I didn't understand it when he said it, until I looked at him and saw him leering at me. Then I felt sick. I told my husband about it... but... who cares? Infidelity runs in that guy's family, apparently. That's his life. We can respect it, and not agree with it. But.......... why do I have to laugh at some asshole's inappropriate joke and remain seated and socially engaging? Why can't I just get up and walk out without social repercussions for "causing a scene"?

    And, why is it that the woman who doesn't like what has been said or done... and speaks out... is the one who "caused" the scene? Why wasn't the scene caused by the jerk who said or did whatever offensive thing s/he said or did?

    I took a break from this forum for awhile because I couldn't read all this stuff and I couldn't find the words to express myself. I've stood in line at McDonald's, and felt like I could tell for sure that the guy in front of me had raped someone before, just based on his build and his demeanor. I was freaking out about my vulnerability, and I was having flashbacks of many rapes. I'm not in that place anymore, thank god.

    Now, I'm trying to sort out the nuances... I may have missed a discussion here about this, but I think that it isn't discussed here because people are dealing with actually being assaulted. Instead of feeling the threat all around them... I don't know. I think that must be it though. I feel the threat all around me. Even though I no longer imagine that I can spot a rapist by build and demeanor. I can't live with these core beliefs anymore. They're destroying all my relationships. :(
  6. :peekaboo:
    Boys are stupid. Throw rocks at them. :funnyfaces:
    (I had more intelligent stuff to say but I think we pretty much covered it before. Take care. :cloud9:)
    muzikluvr likes this.
  7. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Administrator Staff Member

    I have debated with myself whether to reply here ( because I don't want to offend or upset you). . . .but here goes...

    I don't feel powerless in my society. I'm successful, and emotional, I can speak out about any subject, including sexism, and I don't have a thick skin (far from it).

    I don't feel like I have substantial power, either at home, or in the workplace, or with friends. I feel I'm on an equal footing with my peers, whether male or female. I don't feel that any power or self sufficiency has been given to me by a man. I am a person in my own right and live by my own free will.

    I consider myself successful, but I would also say that I'm not judgemental the majority of the time. The only time I sometimes prejudge someone, is at work, and even then that prejudgement is kept to myself and never verbalised.

    In my experience the majority of men that I have met throughout the whole of my life do not have any problems respecting women, or caring about the woman they go to bed with. I would say that I've met just as many women who will happily have one night stands as I have done men. Also I've probably heard more crude and intimate descriptions about sex from women, than I ever have from men.

    I don't think animal instincts can be compared to humans, since dogs don't have the anywhere near the same intellect as humans.

    If that were true, then every male would be a rapist. Men can help themselves, and anyone who thinks otherwise, or thinks a woman deserves to be raped, or brushes off assault as 'boys being boys', is just an ignorant idiot, or in denial.

    I think you should be able to speak out about stuff that offends you. I agree that any scene was caused by the one who made stupid comments. But sometimes that depends on the rest of the company you keep. Whether they see things from your point of view, or the 'jerk'.

    Of course your life experiences differ from mine, so we are bound to have different opinions.

    But I do find it sad (and a little bit offensive), that by your own admission, you devalue all women and (reading between the lines), you devalue all men too.

    Are all the people you come into contact with so bad, that no-one has been able to restore a little faith in others, in you?

    I think that is the part I found a bit offensive. You say that your thought process devalues all women, and men are unable to respect women, so that makes me very apprehensive to post. I know your intention is not to offend, but I really don't know how to take your comments. I feel like I'm treading on eggshells just replying here, since you devalue women, and don't like them. (I am a woman)

    As I said before, I know you are not trying to offend, and nor am I. But I do think you need some help with working out your judgements of people. There are some very bad and evil people in this world, but there are also a lot of people who are good, and caring, and thoughtful.
    muzikluvr and Brucielucy like this.
  8. Thank you for your response, CB. I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt when you responded. I'm sorry that I offended you.

    I wish I could sort through my posts thusfar, I should have stated which parts are what people said to me as a child... repeatedly; and which parts are what I feel, and also which parts are what I think. The problem I'm having is that some of that is in my core beliefs. I disagree with it, but I can't argue against it. I can lash out against it, but I'm having trouble formulating the logic.

    For me, this issue is like when I tried to explain to my dad why I couldn't just celebrate holidays with the family, and put all the past behind me... I tried to explain that to him when I was recovering memories that he'd known all along and didn't protect me. But, I couldn't verbalize what I knew yet. Same here... I'm having a hard time verbalizing that people are all equal, and that they should be judged by their actions and words, and not by their gender. I mean, there, I've said it.

    And, if you look through my posts on many other threads, you'll see that I am compassionate toward people despite their gender, and that I constantly tell them that their choices make them who they are... their choices change based on their understanding, beliefs, information, etc... and that they shouldn't judge themselves so harshly. I don't judge them so harshly as to take what they did or said at one time, and always identify them by a bad choice they made. I'm not sure if you can relate that back to what I'm trying to say about gender roles and sexism... but it does relate... and it is also how I deal with people in real life... and here on the forum. BUT, I'm still stuck with all these sexist beliefs driving me crazy.

    I was "a feminist" when I was in college... but I realize now that a lot of that was actually hurt, anger, and resentment from the traumas. In fact, that's what I'm tapping into to write this post. I would like to hear a lively debate on the subject... but I don't want to be the one defending the sexist view... I want to figure out, though, how to stand up against it. Blatant sexism, isn't a factor in my circle of friends. I don't look to those whom I find to be sexist for their approval. It's covert sexism that I am trying to sort out.

    I'm trying to state the sexist view that I learned and still struggle with so that I can hear other people's experiences with that in society and how they deal with it, and why they look the other way at times, and when it's appropriate to speak out, and anything else that the discussion can lead to.

    I hate looking like the idiot on this thread. The one who actually can't value anyone. Especially when, in real life, I value everyone. But, I'm feeling this disconnect... it's about me. I think this has to do with why I hate myself so much. It's a part of my core beliefs... I need to change it somehow. Maybe I should have written this thread in my diary, and for a debate... I could have gone to the media and pulled quotes down where society is presenting a sexist viewpoint, and we are all laughing along, or accepting of it like... "that's just the way it is." I think the thread is too personal because I can't verbalize it well enough yet.
  9. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Administrator Staff Member

    I've only quickly read your post above, and will read it better tomorrow, and respond better, but just wanted to reply in respect of your above comment. You are far from being an idiot, and I do realise that you value people, otherwise you wouldn't have asked for our input.

    Maybe that's the point. You think you don't trust, or respect, or value anyone, but you do. Maybe your perception of your core beliefs aren't so cut and dried as you think they are. :hug:
  10. Anna

    Anna Guest

    Thank you for posting this issue.

    My first experience of this difference was as a child. I always wanted to be a boy. I hated my mum dressing me in dresses and always felt like "one of the boys".

    I hated the girls are weaker, wear dresses cannot climb trees are dumb no point in investing in their edcuation kind of attitude.

    Misogyny is ugly. It makes girls hate themselves, allows themselves to be abused through lack of self respect, not being able to defend yourself. The fear.

    It took me until my late 20s before I learned to love myself. To have self respect from all the damage that I went through as a child, teenager and young adult. Amazing how the predators home in on you and realise that you have no self respect or love and abuse this. The victim so to speak.

    Hatred of woman's bodies, you see it everywhere, the plastic surgery, the size 0.... it is endless.

    It starts in the home though. Boys need to learn to respect their mothers and sisters. If they see their fathers treating females badly, they tend to copy this behaviour, but a lot is down to society. Society still portrays women as sex objects and items to be owned. We live in a strange time, on one side women covered from head to toe in a burka and the other side sexualised.... I hope one day in the future there will be more respect, because in general people of all races, genders, creed, sexuality, age... need to respect each other
    muzikluvr likes this.
  11. I think what disturbs me most about this issue is how easily the rapists were able to use the social grey area on sexual harassment, male chauvinism, and women's own biases in order to teach me my place.

    My dad's uncle and his grandson would both make comments for my benefit in front of the family, and then I'd be flipping out about it, while my family would laugh and take it differently than it was intended. I know that the grandson used the double entendre a lot, because he'd "innocently" make these comments, then when people understood it to be innocuous, he'd sideways glance at me. If I didn't already understand what he was saying, then I'd know to start thinking about it.

    I was such a tattle tale... when I figured it out, I'd inhale really loudly... and I'd have to fight with myself not to tell on him for it. If I did, then everyone would learn just how "sensitive" I am to all this sexual bullshit... and they'd defend him. Every time. God, I'm so frustrated with this feeling. This... body memory... of being trapped in front of all those people, ready to explode - Fight or Flight - while he snickers and feigns innocence and everyone adjusts whether they will ever trust my judgment again.

    Always, they said that I overreacted. In fact, when I was able to prove it, usually only my mom was still listening... then she'd say, "Big deal"... and "So what?"... and "That's just the way it is."

    This seemed to be true. "That's just the way it is." God, I hate that saying too. How many abusers get to use these social grey areas to misrepresent what they're really doing to women?

    Lies. Manipulations. And, how many times do they brag about how they tapped that? I mean, come on. Why don't these self-respecting men who wouldn't just sleep around, stand up against all that bullshit talk? Why do they "understand" men's "needs"... and assume that the woman was a tramp?

    Here's the deal. There's a coworker of my husbands... who preaches that the morals of our society is in the hands of women. Women are the ones to say no. Men ask. Women decide. That's the way it is. So, he basically pisses me off to hell because by believing that... he takes away all responsibility from men, and gives it to rapists. Because, a woman may say no, but a rapist doesn't ask... and afterward, the rapist will show forms of consent and then lie about her saying yes. Like.... well, she had this short skirt on, she rubbed herself against me when we were dancing, and all that was done publicly. But, privately... he becomes a real dickhead, and she says "No! Stop!" and he says "No ones going to believe you don't want me now."

    So, I think it's COMPLETE BULLSHIT that men believe that other men thinking with their penises is okay.

    Women just have to learn not to dress in sexy clothing and rub themselves against men they meet on the dance floor. I mean, how f**king hard is that to do? If they don't want to be raped, then they shouldn't be out there dancing provocatively and dressing for easy access.

    So, women judge each other for being slutty... right? Teach your daughters not to be promiscuous, teach your daughters not to trust men... not to be alone with men, teach your daughters to choose their friends wisely... so they won't be abandoned somewhere. These aren't bad things to teach, right?

    I want a clearer line than this coworker of my husband's. That's crap. Men have to be held accountable for their actions. We're like.... well.... we don't want to send an innocent man to jail for rape, when the woman was interested in sex and regrets it later... :p f**k off.

    I say this... if men don't want to go to jail for rape, then don't take a woman home and have a one-night stand with her. Idiot. At what point does she start regretting it? She may regret agreeing to leave the bar with the man... and then can't get out of having sex with him. She starts feeling responsible for it the minute she agreed to leave with him. And, I can see the difference between rape and having sex with a willing partner only to never call her again...

    But, what about the morality of baiting and switching like that? If she thinks the man is actually interested... and she's clarifying... she even waits for a few dates to get to know him... and then he never calls her again. Pigs. I mean, right? Pigs. Well, that's okay because she said yes. BUT, he misrepresented his intentions. But, it's still okay because the morality for our society rests on HER shoulders... and she shouldn't have said "yes" before ... what? Marriage?

    I found, when I was dating... that a new boyfriend can go a couple months before the pressure to have sex builds between us to the point that I have to either break up with him or sleep with him. That's crap. I couldn't help it. I didn't understand it. I didn't know I had rights. In fact, I didn't break up with anyone. :) er... actually I did. But, USUALLY they would break up with me because that was the point where I would begin crying whenever we went out on a date! :D ... LOL... no sexual issues here. :rolleyes:

    I broke up with a really nice guy because he said he loved me after like... 4 weeks. I asked him if he loved his ex-girlfriend and he said "yes" and I said "and the one before that?" and he said "Yes" and so on... I decided that it didn't mean anything to him and it was too soon anyway. He didn't know anything about me yet.

    Oh, HERE"S my point! :bounce: If men are going to leave the morality of our society up to women, then when women say they were raped... you must BELIEVE them. Assholes... am I right? I mean, come on. Take some responsibility... or protect us when we tell you we were wronged. Otherwise, it's just another friggin cop out.
  12. I have a hard time with this discussion in real life because I feel like by speaking out when I'm offended, that I'm 'giving away' the fact that I've been sexually assaulted. God... even thinking that brings back the rapists taunting me... something about sour grapes or burnt beans... idk. I guess I want to hear other people discuss this because it was such an ingrained part of my abuse. Having rape minimized as a 7 year old... and still having trouble feeling like it wasn't just a matter of playing with fire and getting burned... makes it hard to speak out.

    Makes it hard to figure out where the line is... and why it seems to trample on my rights.

    "I think it's just one of those arguments that can't be written down, because the nuances are so subtle that one can't really define what is abusive and what is all in good fun. The difference is in intention and in inference. It's SO individual, what is upsetting to one person is acceptable to another."

    Maybe the issue isn't that SOME women enjoy sleeping with every guy they can and so women need to be responsible for their own promiscuity.... but that THOSE women have been groomed to sleep around from early childhood...

    Do statistics exist on THAT statement?

    And, if that statement were true... would women ever turn their backs on each other? Saying that one woman deserved what she got because she was going around offering sex freely to anyone who would have her?

    There's something wrong with me and the society I keep?

    I don't have a society that I keep. :p

    I hibernate.

    Have I chosen a poor group of people to surround myself with? Are my peers and elders abnormally perverse? Is there a world of people out there who aren't behaving this way? No. There are people who aren't behaving this way, but they are functioning within a society that accepts a wide range of sexist comments.
  13. Anna

    Anna Guest

    I sometimes get the feeling that men do not want to be responsible for their actions. They simply want to blame the victim for seducing them. Not just about sexual assault, but even in day to day life. I get the impression they do not want to take responsibility and want to pass the buck so to speak.
    muzikluvr likes this.
  14. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Administrator Staff Member

    I personally, have had lot of support from the men in my life, regarding being raped. In fact all the men I have spoken to regarding this, have been amazingly supportive, have never said that I deserved it, or asked for it, or such like. In fact all have almost seemed embarrassed to be the same gender as the evil bastard that raped me. I have also had the same support from women. I honestly don't know anyone who has ever said that a woman deserved to be raped.

    Plenty of people have sex willingly, and never see the other person again. That is their choice.
    To have sex willingly, and later regret it, and then call it rape, is wrong in my opinion.

    Why shouldn't 2 consenting adults go home for sex, if they both choose? What if she takes him back to her place? Does that make any sex that happens her responsibility? What if the man regrets the sex at a later date? Did she rape him?

    I do understand what you are saying, and you have clearly had very different life experiences to me.

    Your husband's co-worker has just one opinion - that the morality of our society is up to women - all the men I know abhor rape and sexual abuse on any level. Maybe I'm just lucky, in that apart from one seriously 'bad guy', I've met countless 'good guys' to restore the balance.

    I don't know whether you have a therapist, or not, but perhaps CBT could help you. To restore some different (positive) thought processes where very negative thought processes from your previous life experiences are still very prevalent now.

    In my opinion, and experience, there are many people (maybe a whole world of people?) who don't behave in this way, nor do they accept a wide range of sexist comments.
    Anna likes this.
  15. In my experience, a social circle ALLOWS you to stand up for yourself, ALLOWS you to speak out against sexism, ALLOWS you to be a strong female role model. You THINK that you aren't being GIVEN power by those around you... men and women... but in fact, you are being GIVEN that power.

    The bottom line is, that I wasn't raised in that circle. It wasn't the company I keep... it was the family I grew up in. It was a father who warned everyone I ever came into contact with that they couldn't trust my word. It was hearing sexist comments, being goosed and laughed at, hearing women commanded to get stuff for their men, cook for their families... and living with a man whom I THOUGHT wasn't a sexist because he didn't ORDER my mom around... but he still expected her to fill the same role. Only, in MY family, my mom believed she needed to fill that role too and so she did it resentfully, but without being ordered around.

    Well, that's ME. And I"M ANGRY about it. HURT by it. I'm frustrated with it. I KNOW that ALL I HAVE TO DO is STOP believing that I have some kind of sexist role to fill... but I can't just stop believing that. I need something... I need the ATMOSPHERE that you're talking about on here, CB. But, without the condemnation for having fallen into this cycle.

    I am literally dizzy as I type this. I'm having such a physical response to this issue.

    The only reason rape keeps getting brought into this issue is because I feel like I'm too sensitive to male chauvinism because rapists used it against me. I can't sort through it.

    Me too. I think I SHOULD be allowed to speak out. I think I should have been listened to.

    How could I feel otherwise?... after what they taught me in ELEMENTARY school?

    The point in raising this issue is that I DON'T KNOW if the people I come into contact with are so bad... or if I'm just overly sensitive and triggered and should continue to keep my mouth shut and laugh when I know it was meant to be funny... and blah blah blah. How do I know? How do I sort out what is appropriate... why it is appropriate and what is not appropriate?

    Probably, the rapists used the male chauvinism sarcastically for humor, while sideways glancing to me to see that it was really meant as a statement of their beliefs, and I UNDERSTOOD that. Then reacted to it as if they were raping me again, and my family thought I was out of my f**king mind... and treated me like I was hysterical, and now... I don't RESPOND authentically because I've been TRAINED to respond inappropriately to innocuous, idle chit chatter about sex and gender roles in our society.
    anon likes this.
  16. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Administrator Staff Member

    I read your diary post, and I was concerned that I have upset you in my post, and I want you to know that if I did upset you, I apologise, because that was not my intention at all.

    I wasn't trying to suggest that you keep bad company, nor was I trying to condemn you because of the family you grew up in. I was just trying to tell things from my perspective, which is different to your perspective because I haven't experienced what you have.

    I don't think I'm best placed to comment here, because I don't want to upset you.

    I will just stand by my comment, that maybe CBT will help you to relearn behaviours and thought patterns which have been trained into you from a young age. :hug:
    muzikluvr likes this.
  17. Sorry CB, I'm exploding all over this issue. :stomp: I'm not angry with you. I'm upset and trying to sort out what I'm upset about. Thanks for putting yourself out there for me. :sluggish: I'm sorry that my anger spilled onto you. I think that was also my problem when I was a kid... triggered... I'd explode at everyone and no one could figure out what upset me.

    I think the end of my last post here must be what I was looking for... the fact that I was trained by the rapists to respond to every kind of sarcastic, male chauvinistic statement as though it were truth. You know how people will sometimes tell jokes that are funny because there's a bit of truth to them? Well, at my young age, I learned that those jokes were more true than they are. The rapist intentionally led me to believe that by laughing at the statements and acknowledging any truth in them, that my family was basically agreeing with the rapist about my place in the world.

    That's where I need to begin, so I can change my feelings. I need to hear those comments for what they really are, just jokes. Each time I hear them, I will remind myself that they are spoken in jest, that I am a strong woman who deserves respect, that most people are decent and kind and well intentioned, most people respect each other, and those comments aren't representative of their true feelings. I will equate them to the OPPOSITE of what they say, as is usually intended when sarcasm is used...

    I will then respond by laughing them off, when applicable, and continuing to see myself and other women with respect... instead of having all those disrespectful and disgusting things that the rapist said and did to me reinforced when hearing these comments.

    I suppose asking that the whole world stop disparaging each other is an unreasonable request to expect people to follow... just so I don't have to feel like what they say means that it was okay for me to be raped. Easier to change my mind, right? LOL... easy. :rolleyes: er!
    Brucielucy likes this.

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